Shoot me an email if you think youll need personal guidance, otherwise goodluck and I hope Ive been helpful . Sorry! Step 1 - Prepare the Patio Measure the area of your patio that contains the pea gravel, and use this measurement to order the correct amount of binding solution material needed. Thats not a problem for stone dust, whereas poly sand, in a shifty situation, will crack up and be a problem. Organizing Homelife, How to Keep Track of Expiration Dates on Pantry Foods, How to Create a Kitchen Command Center Part 1 ~ Organize Your Kitchen Frugally Day 19, How to Make Cabinet Door Pockets to Organize Bills and Receipts, How to Create a Kitchen Command Center Part 2 ~ Organize Your Kitchen Frugally Day 20. Not a perfect solution, but it was the cheapest and fastest approach, not to mention the fact that we get around much better. If the stones are set upon a concrete foundation: mortar, as addressed here. The next step is to install the base. *also note that i do indeed also use a 4.5 grinder and/or a 14 saw, in order to achieve a tight-fit patio. Stone dust, for life. Am looking for the classic very light grey or whitewash joint color. See that off-white material between the flagstones? Have you ever done the cracks in a more creative artistic way? Youre welcome. Hope that helps and I wish you good luck! Will this work to fill the cracks of should I attempt to find a finer material? Can I still use the screening and will moss grow in it? Please and thank you, Freddi. Thanks! Bear with me here I dont know a lot about it but have you ever thought about using glass marbles, crushed glass, fish tank gravel in a more vibrant color something that would be a little more creative? It is apparently about 12 yrs old. How to use polymeric sand: Don't cheap out on sand. Flagstones tend to be larger (2x3 or 3x3), mixed with some smaller units (1x1 or 1x3). Ive seen stone dust joint stabilizers are being sold, but that might be as bad as poly sand. Polymeric sand, in the case of larger jointsis just even more likely to fail. Come to think of it, one of the private residences in Colonial Williamsburg has a stabilized pea gravel front walk. Then we mixed a ratio of 2 parts mortar to 1 part pea gravel. Repair the flagstone. Worms? Joints are aging well. Once it dries has totally different feel (much harder overall) but the surface still has some give to it, Landscape Architects & Landscape Designers, Outdoor Lighting & Audio/Visual Specialists. &When i say irregular, i mean irregular. We want to go with a flagstone patio around the pool. As it stands now, even a 20% improvement will satisfy them. Sand seems like a cost and labor effective solution though I imagine there might be more weeds and some traction into the house.. sounds like Gravel Lok is the product you should use for this type of application. I only need a small quantity/bag? . thanks, Chris (Santa Cruz Ca). Further, the stone dust I have seen is just the flour part of the DG that you describe using, without any of the 1/8 particles. Now in the above drawing, on the left is 3/4 to 1 clean gravel. But when you want your walkways to stay in place, the round and easily moveable shape of pea gravel could be a problem. Your email address will not be published. The deck builders say they often use polymeric sand between the pool beam and deck pavers. Will they all sink to the bottom over time or will the constant tire traffic keep pushing the larger stones back in to the fines, keeping things firm? You are building a flagstone patiojust use stone. Where are you in PA? Does this sound like an acceptable solution? If I keep the joints tight will the material bind enough to keep water from percolating into ground? Thanks! Required fields are marked *. Am thinking that doing this with decomposed granite is something that I could pay my fireman son to do in his off days. Yea, buy a few brick, cut them, do it right. The previous comment about the smaller stones becoming loose made me wonder if using the red steppers will work. Despite that, regular stone dust usually works just fine in between flagstones, without any binder, polymeric or otherwise. I had planned to use decomposed granite for bedding and also in the joints. If the stones are set upon a gravel foundation: 1/4 minus. Most polymeric sand manufacturers offer at least two colors that match 95% of the interlocking pavers on the marketplace today: tan and grey. Glad you found the article useful! Sounds like a winner, right? Like Ive said many timesjust stay away from plastic landscape products! All that space that was filled with water is now air, so its a weak concrete. 6 Reviews. Thank you Devin for this, preparing to put in quartz flags in Colorado over clay soil, gravel base, love this long term solution you provide with decomposed granite for leveling and filler. About ground cover for in between your stones.theres a few good options out there, like Irish moss (not really a moss) and thyme and others. Wait, wait, youre saying lots of stones move when stepped on. Havent had any issues of stone dust getting into the pool, 3 years later. Through the washing, exposed some cracks between the pavers. Or you could look into planting some sort of ground cover like a creeping thyme or something. Calcium chloride or other salt substitute should be fine, but salt will deteriorate mortar. Hello, could you please post a few close up pictures of the stone screenings that you use so we can try to match our locally available products as closely as possible. Such joints will fail within a few years. Id just power wash the whole thing., some joint material may bust loose just from the water.Then Id take a large flathead screwdriver and start prying out joint material. This is a torch that is used to weld and cut steela blow torch. Seriously, how much rain did you get? Digging and tamping and rakinghard work!). Leave the joints about a 1/8 1/4 shy of the tops of the flagstones when youre finished. Good article, way back then, and still helpful. There is no cement now. But okay, if youre going to live with what you have then yea, stone dust is a much better option than poly sand. Any suggestions on how to keep it from washing downhill? By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Any corrections or suggestions I should be advised of? I haven't used it but was impressed that Colonial Williamsburg and other historic places used it. Where do you buy the screenings? Plus, get an extra 20% off with code GIFT20, Fine Homebuilding Issue #313 Online Highlights, The Fine Homebuilding Interview: James Metoyer, 10 Steps to Install Crown Molding on Cabinets, Choosing the Right Construction Tape for the Job, Expert insights on techniques and principles. And be sure to not overfill your jointsthe stone dust/DG should be a bit shy of the tops of your flagstones. Your work looks great! Do you think installing a border on the sides of the trench is necessary? Using pavers, like TRUEGRID pavers, to stabilize your pea gravel walkway is another option. Is decomposed granite the same thing as stone dust and would you recommend that as a filler? Then, pour about three inches of pea gravel on top of this base layer. Private commission. Ahoy, but I do see one application for this gravel glue messas a back-top alternative. I have a circle design using left-over holland pavers; so there are cracks. As easy to install as regular sand, almost. After that I have one side that I will change to/add retaining wall stone borders to better lock my stones in. I had thought pea gravel would look great, but I was scared off by the instability issue. Does lime really extend the life of the mortar joint? Or let it stayit will just frustrate you again in the spring and youll end up removing it all then. or do I need to first bind the bottom of the blue stone to the old mortar base somehow - before I mortar the joints? A customer installed 46 tons (4000 sf) of to decorative type stone, fairly rounded with minimal fines on their driveway. Compacting the pea gravel will help keep it in place. Use a roller to compact the gravel, which also helps with stability. it will likely stay glued to itself.but the bricks or stone that it is set amongstthese will not be clean surfaces. Finally, polymeric sand is an acrylic product. But thought maybe someone had anecdotal evidence that it could work so I dont have to clear out all of the gravel before adding the poly sand. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. This project will be my first. To keep pea gravel from rolling and shifting, tamp it down with a heavy lawn roller or hand tamper after you install it. Thanks again for the great advice! Patio is sloped but not very much. Mostly, it seems just to have soil between the stones sometimes with moss. !Thanks in advanceMurphy. I cant say too much about stabilized decomposed granite. Would love to find a sub-contractor to just do the work but two months of trying hasnt produced anyone. Heres a patio, where for most of it, I set the flagstones maybe an inch to an inch and a half apartso thats already wider than usual, for mebut then, for the section of patio just past the deck and surrounding the pond, we set the flagstones more like 2 inches apart. It's pretty thick, so it's really helpful to have two people mix it. If not, then Id grab my oxygen/acetylene torch. If you do find my advice useful, then please do share some of my work on whatever social media you use, especially photos of my dry stone sculpture: https://www.devineescapes.com/dry-stone-sculpture/. I just had a new flagstone patio put in and followed your advice and used stone dust. PDF for Aggregates/Sand & Gravel Washing Polymer Additions. Pea gravel is highly desirable as it is versatile and cost-effective. Love your artwork with stone. Thanks! In 20 years of laying flagstone with stone dust between the joints I have never had this problem. Are the stones too small, I mean, maybe hes thinking to glue the stones down with the cement? Pretty much all of my DIY consultation customers complete their patios, with the final product having much wider joints than I usually allowand then, out in california its popular to build entire walkways using nothing but stone dust. We probably will use large pre cut 2x3ft, 2x2ft and 21.5ft rectangular size stones. The recommended base layer is #3 or #57 crushed stone. Lay the 2x down on top of the trench and hammer down to tamp. He wants to lay a new flagstone patio on top of a mix of sand mixed with cement(about 6 to 1). test area because it may stain the flagstones too. To preserve the path's beauty, simply rake over the stones regularly to keep the surface even and level. Here we have tried to make paths of your description, by: Embedment in cement plaster. If you do this, please keep me updated, let me know how it works. IMO this is a bad idea. Well I understand that the stones may be too small. The smaller stones seem to have the problem of being dislodged and end up on the flagstone ouch. I am pretty sure bluestone screening is available in my area. My concern is two fold. Worried about chair legs busting through. After grinding out the joints you water to broom up all the debris, then blow off all the dust, then hose off all the dust..and get those joints nice and clean. As a professional contractor, I generally just purchase road base, gravel, and compact it for my foundation. Well, its fairly easy, but you have to becarefulthe sand is mixed with a binder. I love the look of pea gravel, but it sure doesn't handle traffic well. Againdo not spray round-up or any other poison unto your patio. Hi, love the blog, just stumbled into it and you have a great skill at explaining things. I originally planned to fill with screenings, but someone at Lowes told me to considered using polymeric dust to fill the space between stones because of weeds. You can also use cement. This is a BAD thing. Im really stuck and could use some advice- What might be the best solution? My customer wanted no transition between the pool and the patio..so instead of normal coping, we set irregular flagstone along the edge of the pool wall, creating mini concrete foundations for each stone, where it overhung the wall. As such, when maintenance issues do arise, you probably want to call a pro and have them deal with it. Hi Devin, Ive loved to play with rocks and recently did some work at our camp on Moosehead Lake (ME). The Patio is shaded except during the winter. Thanks, JoAn. You are so kind to answer so quickly and for the method link. (The previous owners thought a pea gravel front yard would be nice as well - so I already have that on my plate to remove).I was wondering if anyone has tried to stabilize pea gravel using concrete sand, DG, or other material and tamping? I am building and outdoor shower and plan to use natural local stone, which can be fairly thick and irregular on the opposite side of a nice flat sided stone, perfect for a shower floor. I am a contractor working on a large home renovation project in Northern California. But heres the problem: polymeric sand fails.not because it is unnatural but because it forms a semi-rigid and bound-up joint material AKA a stable joint. A site visit could be arranged, if necessary. The modal window is a 'site map' of the most critical areas of the site. Some people try and solve this problem with plastic edging. Now I am stuck with what is the best material to fill the cracks. Push down on it, one corner of the stone at a time. Ive created a 15 x 15 flagstone patio using 1.5-2.5 mostly flat, some irregular stones. What I would do is lift up a few stones and observe the foundation. Otherwise it will crack up. Make sure the patio is pitched hard enough. One who just happens to enjoy writing, and likes to help people. I found your article very interesting i was already going to use screenings but was still researching and i came accross this. Thx, I do phone/email consultations for $93 an hour. Set aside ample time for the project, haste makes waste. Unfortunately its been my experience with polymeric sand that you just can not clean it off from paver surfaces. One of those might be ochre stone. Id love to find something natural in a deep blu to go with the bluestone. I do not recommend paver setits basically polymeric sand, and I do not like polymeric sand with flagstone. Podcast 529: Members-only AftershowHow Good is Good Enough? As far as the gravel goes, crusher run is the stuff. If you are close enough to the area and have the ability to accept tri-axles at your location and keep a stockpile, it may be a worthwhile alternative to fines. Can I sweep stone dust into the cracks now instead of sand? It is an excellent material for leveling out your flagstonesthe best in my opinion, and likewise it is the best joint filler for flagstones. If the patio is dry laid, on a sand/gravel or stone dust foundation..then theres should not be anything portland cement based in the joints. So far we have tried aggressive scrubbing test areas with soap and water, aggressive scrubbing with a 50/50 bleach mixture, and also with a powerful house siding cleaning mixtureall with no luck, the same haze remains. Remove organic matter from the driveway. Otherwise, I am forced to walk on hard edged screenings! They laid it out very beautifully and was pleased with their work. Seee this post here on sand cement or gravel. These stones on the pool edge got mortared in joints, dyed dark gray to match the stone dust/DG that was used for the rest of the flagstone. Any suggestions to avoid this? https://www.devineescapes.com/flagstone-what-to-use-sand-cement-or-gravel/. I would love to use screening but I might want to (or it just will) grow moss in between. Do you recommend using cement/sand mortar combination or to go with stone dust. I live in mid-state NJ and had a 17x30 ft. bluestone patio installed over a previously existing concrete patio base. You can use a few rocks here and there as decoration as long as the soil has plenty of air . This falls under the no cement at all in a dry laid patio rule. Its been working for me. Anything with d-limonene. Also, its toxic stuff were talking. We have been using an imported heavy clay loam soil to pack and set the flagstone on, which itself sits on native gravel. Thanks for telling me the plastic approach is lame. A fragment of flagstone that is 8 inches by 3 inches by 2.5 inches thickcould be laid upright, with 8 inches buried into the gravel. I already clear out a 15 X 15 for my back patio. This downward slope on each side will help with water runoff and prevent washouts. It makes me crazy because when it rains or the wind blows, it seems to go everywhere. Garden center. Flagstone, and such-like. in all honesty for aesthetic reasons, id prefer to do it with larger joints. Heres the quick story: Ive reclaimed enough of the small pieces from borders created by the previous owner. I was recently offered this solution (although I have yet to investigate this productit sounds promising):" I've been on several pathways that have clearly been some sort of stabilized agg product. Wish Id have found you 10 years ago Id have you building my dream stacked wall. I have a dry laid flagstone patio in the backyard, and am exploring some joint filler options. Purchase screenings at a landscape supply store or at a quarry. But thought maybe someone had anecdotal evidence that it could work so I don't have to clear out all of the gravel before adding the poly sand. I hope not. Fact is, no one really uses it, so I never encounter examples of good, or bad installations using the product. Does anything on this page (http://highlandls.com/products/) or this page (https://www.landscapeandgarden.com/gravel-decorative-rock) jump out to you as being the product you recommend? Technisoil.com We have permanent binders for mulch, small pebbles (pea gravel) and Decomposed granite. Is it well compacted? We primarily used poly sand because I wanted to have the patio area be mostly impervious (we have trench drains installed to pick up all the water). Thank you very much. Thank you Devin! Ready-mix concrete refers to concrete that is specifically manufactured for customers' construction projects, and supplied to the customer on site as a single product. This is professional advice, written by dedicated a stone mason/passionate stone artist with over 25 years experience. Just sweep the decomposed granite into the cracks between the stones, then turn on the shower to set the DG/stone dust into place. This includes gator dust and any other type or brand of polysand. Thank you for taking the time to post this for the world to see. Thanks in advance. Screenings are not the same as polymeric sand. The reason for a well compacted foundation of road base or something similar is thisroad base can be compacted and yet remains well draining. I understand that stabilized granite actually predates polymeric sand and that there is such thing as stabilized decomposed granite made with *psyllium husks, but that the term stabilized decomposed granite can refer to DG stabilized with various binders. I can say without reservation that you should repair the flagstone patio that you haveand never replace it with stamped concrete. Florida is one of the most unique states in the country because of the weather, sights, and bodies of water. Thank you for bringing that updecomposed granite is yet another name for stone dust. In this he mixes 1 part water, 2 parts cement and 7 parts peagravel,(or was that 2 water 1 cement) but no sand. Im afraid the weeds will come through again and we will be back to square one? The manufacturer recommends clean gaps of just polymeric sand. Also, no to weed barrier? also can i just use decomposed granite to level and build the basketball court? Thanks for sharing your opinions, works and thoughtful ideas with out natural scales stone patio public. When laying the flagstone, I use a four foot level.2.5 inches over ten feet is equal to 1 inch over 4 feet. Ill probabvly be emailing you soon, to set up a consultation, as we have some questions about cutting, dealing with elevations and drainage issues, just some stuff particular to our project, and it would be good for someone to hold our hand walk us through the process, make us feel more confident about what we need to do. To see pics of out slate patio and other recent landscaping projects, ck out my Picture Trail: Here is a link that might be useful: look at Landscaping Projects 2007, Favourite ROSES We Grow albums. Sometimes its better to just remove big chunks and replace with new poly sandor remove ALL of the polysand and replace with stone dust, or, more polymeric sand if you must. Youre welcome, I hope my blog posts are helpful. Early in my flagstone patio career I used to try and keep the screenings in my flagstone joints as close to level with the stones as possible, but with foot traffic, wind and rain, the joints seem to naturally level off to around an average of one eighth of an inch shy of flush with the flagstone.. Use a leaf blower on a low setting to remove small bits of screenings that havent settled all the way in yet. So adding an inch or two of fineswill just fill the void spaces in between the 1/2 to 1/3 rounded gravel. You can do it. Ideally a pea gravel patio should have 3" base rock and 1" actual pea gravel.

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